For those who are in school

[oneinch]

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Right on.


US

Land of the free!


Free to succeed

Free to fail

I love America, I love capitalism, I love the Constitution, let me just get that out there first and foremost. But America is far from being free anymore and our current form of government is far from being in line with the Constitution. FBI, CIA, IRS, DHS, etc, etc, All of them are unconstitutional and all of them are nothing but thugs. We have one of the most gangster government ever.

The reason our education sucks is not because we have to pay out of pocket for college but because our lovely government dictates what can and can not be taught/said in the class room. For example, take the theory of evolution. Practically all Americas that go through any form of public education system hear that evolution is fact, etc. But what you don't know is that evolution is far from being a proven theory, evidences they give in the text books were long ago proven wrong, and some even down right fraudulent, yet they still remain in the text books and are taught as fact. This is because our lovely state governments is passing, and in some places already passed, legislation to make it illegal to say anything negative about evolution or attempt to teach anything but evolution. And where this legislation is not passed a teacher will be force out of her position by the teacher unions. Our education system sucks because it is nothing but indoctrination teaching Americans how to be drooling, mumbling idiots incapable of understanding how to tie ones shoe lace and how to be good citizens and trust your gubberment, NOT because we have to pay for college out of our own pockets.

Our government is down right gangster and criminal and virtually takes little notice of the U.S. Constitution.

for example:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/18/eighty-four-year-old-man-allegedly-beaten-by-police-officer-after-calling-911/

http://www.redstate.com/sjkohut/2010/03/23/mccains-s3081-strips-americans-of-their-5th-and-6th-amendment-rights/

http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/House_Prepares_to_Give_President_Authority_to_Wage_Worldwide_War_Forever_110518

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b93UJF4JlZ8&feature=feedu#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6OPs-URX7U#ws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWnNV7xqC-o#ws


Okay, I am done for now, I am sleepy and it is way past my bed time.

[Wargasm]

Maddog, the conservative idealism of not taxing or taxing very little benefits the rich and big businesses very disproportionately. Guess who lobbies for less taxes and less control over the people and business the most? Big businesses and conglomerates. Less government means business can do whatever the hell they want. Less taxes means they can maintain superiority over any beginners or those that did not start out advantageously.

Your quote from Rush Limbaugh is of course true, it is a huge blanket statement that does not really reflect what Rush Limbaugh really believes. What if I twisted his quote around and said, no great nation became prosperous without taxation?

To tell the truth it comes down to this. The people that are screwed by the system and the people need a hand are the ones that want more taxation. People that also care about those people that are disadvantaged also support higher taxes for education because they know it is not fair that the failures of your parents be brought down upon you. Those that believe that society is fair as it is and/or are benefiting from the system the most (corporations, the wealthy) of course want lower taxation. While you may not be either of those Maddog(I have no idea), you probably believe or have been told your whole life that if you fail, it isn't the system, it is either because you haven't worked hard enough or you were unlucky. Now who the **** do you think that saying benefits? Those that are at the high of the status quo.

You speak of the rich with such disdain, when the fact of the matter is that they've become rich by working their ass off under extreme taxation (50% and sometimes more depending on their business setup).  Why should they be taxed even more, especially when those taxes pay for someone to sit on their ass doing nothing?  Here is a FACT.  The top 5% of wage earners pay 53.25% of the total taxes in the US.  How about one that hits a little closer to our pay grade.  The to 50% of people in this country pay over 96% of the taxes.  Talk about disproportionate tax rates!  Half of us are paying the taxes of the other half!

When people want to raise taxes, the general idea is "well, the rich can afford it.  Take it from them".  Problem is, the rich people worked hard for what they have, and they don't want to give any more of it up.  So what happens?  They downsize, and in so doing, cause job losses among the working class. 

I experienced this on a small scale back in 2006.  I was working for a tech company, and for a while, we were getting overtime on a regular basis.  I noticed that on a moderate week when I would have only a few hours of overtime, my check would actually be slightly less than if I had no overtime at all.  Why?  Because those few hours jumped me up into the next tax bracket.  The same thing is happening now with wealthy individuals.  Under heavy taxation, they either expand and increase their income by a lot, or they take it easy and work a bit less so that they drop down a level on the tax scale.

My point is that there is zero need for additional taxes in the first place.  Taxes should be cut so that you, me and the filthy rich guy across town get to keep more of our own money.  Sure, some entitlement programs would have to be cut, but if taxes are cut and reworked properly, much of the "need" for these programs would disappear.

FWIW, my ideal solution would be zero income tax.  20-25% sales tax for everyone on everything except for groceries.  Then when the government budget is balanced, maybe that number could drop to 18%.  Doesn't equal, fair taxation make the most sense?  Everyone would have to carry the load equally... rich, poor, illegal immigrants, tourists, etc... everyone who uses government in some capacity would have to pay for it.  No one would be able to cheat on their taxes.  Naturally, the wealthy would still pay most of the taxes because (duh) they buy more stuff.  And the extremely poor individuals would pay very little because food still wouldn't be taxed.  But a flat tax would solve a lot of issues... AND it would shrink or eliminate the IRS.  Now there's a big expense off the federal budget!



And to answer your question, I'm not a wealthy individual.  Nor am I poor.  I grew up in an average single-earner household (dad worked at the fire station and mom stayed home).  We lived in a fixer-upper house that cost $37,000.  We always had used cars.  We never had a nice TV, and we didn't even have a modern computer until 2000.  Since being on my own (2007), I've been flat broke many times, but as an entrepreneur, that's pretty much par for the course... and guess what?  Every time I've been broke, its been my fault.  Really!  Don't give me that crap about people being unable to do for themselves.  This is a huge societal issue.  Everyone wants to blame someone else for their own failures.  No one wants to take responsibilities for their own actions.

What's wrong with everyone being responsible for themselves?  Maybe I have more faith in people than you do.  I believe that everyone has the ability to be successful in some capacity.  Why do you insist that they don't? 

No matter the crappy situation, there is always a way through it, even for those that grow up extremely disadvantaged.  Getting to a better place is rarely easy, but then again, nothing really worthwhile ever is.

I really don't speak of the rich in such disdain. Your statistics for the amount each bracket is paying in terms of taxes may be right. But they also represent how much people make as well. If the top 1 % is paying 35% of the taxes, think about the wage disparity. And you really don't support the government helping kids with no means to attend college? Really? Since when should the financial success of your parents dictate your future education? BTW you probably pulled all your statistics from the NTU or some other Right-wing "non-partisan" organization, because they don't give you half the facts you are saying. The government should be there to help those that are in need of help, as well as provide oversight of those with a disproportionate amount of power. If it was your way, the rich would forever be rich, hoarding their savings with family lines and owning this country. The little guy would never have a chance. I am not some freeloader either, I come from a well to do family surrounded by rich kids who will probably inherit their parent's businesses and never have to work for a cent in their life. I earned a full scholar ship to the university I attend and work my ass off. But apparently you believe sympathy for those that are not as fortunate as themselves is something that we shouldn't do as a collective. I say that we should watch out for those that need a hand, that we should stand for those that cannot stand for themselves and teach them how to manage their lives. Whatever man, atleast we can agree to disagree on how us humans should interact.

[Wargasm]

Oh, and for the record here is a statistic with cited evidence on how much americans actually do pay for taxes.

"Middle-class households that earned between $34,300 and  $141,900 paid 50.5 percent of all federal tax revenues in 2007"

Not the top 1%. Read and go through all the evidence before disagreeing with what I post. Your statistics had no citations, I had to go look through a myriad of partisan and non partisan data to find Maddog's numbers.
http://www.cnsnews.com/node/68094

Btw those research numbers were provided by the CBO or the Congressional Budget Office, a federal agency not some partisan research org. Let's debate shall we?

[Stella]

Maddog seems to me that you live in the fairy tale world where it is easy to enrich...if everything u say was true nd was so easy getting to a better place even for those that grow up extremely disadvantagedthere would be no poor desperate people...

Stella YOU are the one living in the fairy tale world, do you honestly believe that? I thought you were intelligent...

i live in rwality..and I consider myself intelligent until proven otherwise..express an opinion or thought or reality doesent mean 2 not to be intelligent...nd i dont think that anyone is not intelligente..

[SnKQuaKe]

In the US a problem we have is the people demanding healthcare provided are among the percentage that don't pay a dime or get more money than they paid in via Earned Income Credits. That's just plain wrong. 


I get most of what I pay back.. Im not wealthy.. But Im for smaller government and flat taxes.. I look up to the
Rich people.. A majority of them worked hard to get there.. it takes discipline to get there.. Most Americans could be millionaires in their lifetime with a  little saving. They could be those "Mean old rich people" but they choose to spend it
to make you think their wealthy.

[Flame[1up]]

Oh, and for the record here is a statistic with cited evidence on how much americans actually do pay for taxes.

"Middle-class households that earned between $34,300 and  $141,900 paid 50.5 percent of all federal tax revenues in 2007"

Not the top 1%. Read and go through all the evidence before disagreeing with what I post. Your statistics had no citations, I had to go look through a myriad of partisan and non partisan data to find Maddog's numbers.
http://www.cnsnews.com/node/68094

Btw those research numbers were provided by the CBO or the Congressional Budget Office, a federal agency not some partisan research org. Let's debate shall we?

Just to say

This data is not current

http://www.cnsnews.com/node/68094

Sunday, June 20, 2010 was almost a year ago.

idk if that changes anything :/

[Wargasm]

Oh, and for the record here is a statistic with cited evidence on how much americans actually do pay for taxes.

"Middle-class households that earned between $34,300 and  $141,900 paid 50.5 percent of all federal tax revenues in 2007"

Not the top 1%. Read and go through all the evidence before disagreeing with what I post. Your statistics had no citations, I had to go look through a myriad of partisan and non partisan data to find Maddog's numbers.
http://www.cnsnews.com/node/68094

Btw those research numbers were provided by the CBO or the Congressional Budget Office, a federal agency not some partisan research org. Let's debate shall we?

Just to say

This data is not current

http://www.cnsnews.com/node/68094

Sunday, June 20, 2010 was almost a year ago.

idk if that changes anything :/

Actually it was even further back than that. If you read it, the data was compiled in 2007. However, house hold contributions rarely change drastically, especially over a 4 year period so the data is still relevant.